Origin and Place on Earth. Native American and Jewish Religious Views (Enoch and Kavika)

Mrs D. ''Gakina Awiiya'' we are all related. Thank you for visiting Mrs D.

Waanakiwin niijii

Grisham: Thanks for visiting and your comments. Treating the planet and those that live on it (humans, animals, fish, birds etc) are to be shown respect in the Ojibwe version, simply because they to have a soul.

Waanakiwini niijii

I find some of the similarities in the creation stories very interesting. I believe God revealed himself to all people and that different cultures expressed it differently. I truly believe that God has provided us with enough information that each of us can discern the glory and nature of God.

Hiram, Thank you for visiting. The muskrat and the turtle are very important to us. On the back of the turtle with dirt brought by the muskrat the world was built.

Waanakiwin (peace)

Bore-head, thank you for visiting, reflection is good for ones soul. It benifits us all.

Waanakiwin (peace)

Sydney my friend, thank you for visiting. There are many similarities between all, in many different ways.

Waanakiwin niijii

Sydney - 5, the older I get, the more truth I find in your statement about our similarities. There seems to be a natural reluctance for us to reveal and discuss these things.

Peace, my friend.

Should we both be lucky enough to see that, Enoch.

Gnosis: Thank you for visiting. I did not see it as a downer, if we are to be at peace with one another then we must see one another in the same light that we see ourselves.

Waanakiwin (peace)

screminmimi: Thank you for visiting and sharing your story. Yes the turtle is an important part of our creation story as is the muskrat. North American is known as ''Turtle Island'' to us.

Waanakiwin niijii

boomer: Thank you for visiting. ''Respecting Nature is respecting ourselves''...well said and very true.

Waanakiwin (peace)

G-Man, thank you for visiting. Mutual respect for all living things is essential.

Thank you for your kind comments.

Waanakiwin (peace)

Vlad my friend, yes it does, doesn't it. There are many more in the Ojibwe belief, and some that differ from others religions as well.

Thanks you for visiting my friend.

Waanakiwin niijii

js, thank you for visiting and your comments, as always are clear and with great meaning.

Waanakiwin niijii

Kavika and Enoch you both radiate joy, fairness and love for all. I believe this is what makes our planet soar. We keep it up all will be well.

js: Thank you for your kind comments.

tzia niijii, wonderful words, thank you for sharing with us.

Waanakiwin niijii

Bobby, very well said my friend, all point of agreed on.

Waanakiwin (peace)

Super Saiyan, thank you for visiting. Your posts are very informative as well.

Waanakiwin (peace)

Mn Man, you may have to look far and wide...LOL...Thank you for visiting my friend. You comments are always accepted here.

Waanakiwin niijii

Too much good and intelligent company here to engage in Blackadder's philosophy. Great article and very informative, thanks.

Once upon a time, there was no time and that was when there also was no gods and no man walked the surface of the land. But there was the sea, and where the sea met the land, a mare was born, white and made of sea-foam. And her name was Eiocha. On the land, near where the land met the sea, a tree grew, a strong and sturdy oak. On the oak, grew a plant whose seeds were formed of the foam tears of the sea. To sustain her, Eiocha ate the seeds, these white berries, and they were transformed within her. Eiocha grew heavy with child and gave birth to the god, Cernunnos. So great was her pain in childbirth that she ripped bark from the one tree and hurled it into the sea. The bark was transformed by the sea and became the giants of the deep.

Cernunnos was lonely and he saw the giants of the deep who were numerous, so he coupled with Eiocha and of their union came the gods, Maponos, Tauranis, and Teutates, and the goddess, Epona. Eiocha soon tired of the land, being a creature of sea-foam, and she returned the sea, where she was transformed into Tethra, goddess of the deep water, sometimes called Tethys.

The gods and goddess were lonely for they had none to command nor none to worship them. The gods and goddess took wood from the one oak tree and fashioned the first man and the first woman.

Cernunnos also made other animals from the one oak tree, the deer and the hound, the boar and the raven, the hare and the snake. He was god of the animals, and he commanded the oak tree to spread and grow, to be come a forest home for his children.

Epona also made animals, but she made only the horse, mare and stallion alike, in remembrance of Eiocha who was no more.

Teutates took limbs from the one tree, and fashioned a bow, arrows, and a club.

Tauranis took limbs from the one tree, and fashioned thunderbolts made of fire and noise. He would leap to the top of the tallest trees and hurl his weapon at the ground. The ground would shake, the grass would burn, and the animals would run in fear

Maponos also took limbs from the one tree, but he fashioned not a weapon but a harp. He stretched strings of the winds from its limbs and spent his days in Cernunnos' forest. The winds would join in the melodies, and the birds as well. And all Cernunnos' animals would come from near and far to hear Maponos play.

The giants of the deep saw the gods and goddess happy on the land, and the giants were jealous, for they had none to command nor none to worship them. So the giants plotted against the gods; they would overwhelm them with the sea and take the land under the water. But Tethra in the deep sea heard the murmuring of the giants in the waves and she remembered her days as Eiocha and so she warned her sons and daughter. The gods were prepared the day the giants came against them.

The gods took refuge in the one oak tree. Tauranis hurled his thunderbolt and split the land, and the sea overflowed its boundaries. Maponos broke the sky and hurled it at the giants. Teutates' deadly aim with the bow and arrows from the one oak tree cut down many of the giants. The giants of the deep were not without weapons; they had the strength of the waves.

The gods overwhelmed the giants, but could not destroy them. The giants of the deep were driven back into the sea, and Tethra bound them in the deep waters. But a few escaped Tethra and fled far from her reach. They called themselves the Fomor, and built a life on the outer edges of the world. But the Fomor dreamed of conquest, and vowed to once again take the land from the gods. Of their later battles, our histories tell us much.

The sea returned to its bed and Maponos repaired the sky. And the gods looked for Epona as she had been absent from the victory. Epona had rescued one man and one woman from the watery and fiery destruction, and the three of them waited deep in Cernunnos' forest. From this man and this woman Epona saved would come our mighty people. The gods and the goddess left the deep of Cernunnos' forest and re- turned to their home near the one tree of oak which still stood strong and sturdy, and the sacred berries where still white as sea-foam.

Where the fiery pieces of the heavens Maponos had torn from the sky had mingled with the waters of the sea, there were born new gods. The god Belenus and his sister Danu sprang from where the heavenly fire had been but little quenched. The god Lir sprang from where the waters of the sea had almost quenched the fire of heaven. From Lir, as the histories tell, there would come the mighty Manannan, the beautiful Branwen, the wise Bran. But from Danu many children would come, the Dagda, Nuadha of the Silver Hand, the wise Dienceght, the smith Goihbhio, the fearsome Morrigan, the gentle Brighid. The Children of Danu and the Children of Lir are the two mighty races our songs tell of, ever opposite.

Source.

Mn Man, great story, just wonderful. Thanks for telling the story to us. It is with forums such as this that we can exchange and learn from one another.

Waanakiwin niijii (peace my friend)

The above story is not a creation myth per se, as the land, water and sky already exist. In fact the ancient Celts have no known creation myth. It has either been lost in the depths of time or it is not necessary as they believed the world always existed. My money is on the latter.

As for something that can be used as a basis for understanding and interacting with each other and the world around us, I would go with the Oran Mor (Great Melody):

Quiet—Eternal Quiet. Not even the sound of the restless, stirring, dark waters could be heard.

Then, a great spiraling strain of Melody moved across the endless waters. Subdued at first, then quickly gathering momentum until it reached a great crescendo.

And, then, there was Life!

But the Melody did not stop. It continued its song, filling all of Creation with its divine harmony. And so it continues today, for all those who listen.

From the Celtic Library. I don't necessarily agree with everything that Mr. Mills says about the Oran Mor but he has an interesting take on it.

My understanding of the Great Melody is that it is an all pervasive creative force. Thus everything has a part in the song, if you will. The implication of this is that everything is connected. The hare and the stag, the rock and the water, the sky and the land, all of humanity. Actions can be harmonious or discordant, in pitch or out of tune. The upshot is that it is better to live within the song than outside of it and living within the song requires an acknowledgement that we are all in it together, a part of everything, and our actions should reflect that.

That's my quick take on it. I'm sure there is a Druid somewhere who might explain it better or even point out that I'm completely wrong ;)

Gakina Awiiya (we are all related) Mn Man. Central to our existence as it seems it is to the Druid.

Thank you for bringing this wonderful piece to the forum.

Waanakiwin niijii

Kavika, Mn Man, all - Here is a modern Druidic interpretation of this relationship:

The Awen and Self-awareness

Our understanding of the ancient beliefs of the European Atlantic Façade people known as the Insular Celts is based in part on the Cymru Gwyddon system of religious and metaphysical practice as recorded by Iolo Morganwg in what is known as the Welsh Barddas. This was oral tradition, which was not written down until the 18^th century of this era. The authenticity of the Barddas is questioned by many for the relative modernity of the work and because Morganwg sought to blend Druidic and Abrahamic elements in an attempt to show the common roots of both without compromising the core Gwyddon beliefs but collaborating evidence for the basic authenticity of his writing can be found by examining ancient thought expressed in the Triads and the Songs of Amergin and Taliesin.

The Welsh Barddas says that, in the beginning, there was the principle of energy, Cóimhdhe, or Order, which tended toward life, and the principle of destruction, Cythrawl, or Chaos, which tended toward death. When the Creator God/dess spoke Its Name into the Void, the primal substance of the universe was formed; when It sounded Its own Name, "all being flashed from latency into existence". This is the reason that both the Creator and the Abode of the Creator are called Celi in Welsh.

The Name, or Word, which is the substance of Divinity, is a multitude of minute indivisible particles, each being a microcosm, for Celi is complete in each of them, while at the same time each is a part of Celi, the Whole. The Name of the Divine is represented by three lines like the rays of the sun, one signifying the sun's ray at dawn, a vertical line for the sun's ray at noon, and a third line showing the sun's ray at eventide: /|\ This is the symbol modern Druids add following their names to indicate their faith. It is called Awen.

According to Philip Carr-Gomm, Arch-Druid of the Order of Bards, Ovates and Druids, Awen is the divine fire that exists "in the form of an energy which is seen as bringing illumination, inspiration and wisdom. Known as Awen in Welsh and Imbas in Irish, Druids sense this as a universal force which flows through the world and which can be encouraged to flow through us to bring these gifts."

In the Barddas, we are told that we began as the least possible form that was capable of life, the nearest possible to absolute death, and that we have existed in every form capable of life. This is a theme repeated constantly in the bardic Songs of Amergin and Taliesin. We are also told that there was much suffering and little good until we became human.

"What are you, and what is your origin?"

"I am a human in the Circle of Abred, having had my origin in Annwn."

"And what were you, before you became a human?"

"In Annwn, I began as the least possible form that was capable of life and the nearest possible to absolute death.

"I progressed from every form capable of a body and life to the state of humanity in the Circle of Abred, where my condition was severe and grievous during countless ages since I was parted in Annwn from the dead, by the gift of God, and His great generosity, and His unlimited and endless love."

"In how many different forms have you existed, and what have you endured in each of them?"

"I have existed in every form capable of life, in water, in earth, in air. I have endured every severity, every hardship, every evil, and every suffering, and very little was of goodness, or Gwynfyd, before I became a man. Gwynfyd cannot be obtained without seeing and knowing everything, but it is not possible to see or to know everything without suffering everything. There can be no full and perfect love that does not produce those things which are necessary to lead to the knowledge that causes Gwynfyd."

To understand this, we must look at the levels of consciousness. To be a wind, a wave, an eagle or a bull - these things are neither inherently good nor bad, but none have an awareness of self as a discrete entity, disunited from Abred. So the goodness comes, not from the form we possess, but in the understanding of what we are.

Basic to this understanding is that we have existed, in every possible form, from the beginning. We have evolved, from the least form capable of life to humanity. But our evolution does not stop there. Life is change. It is becoming. When we were a wind, we were in the process of becoming something else, something more cohesive. We progressed from inanimate to animate being. We became aware.

Self-awareness allows us to remember, and memory strengthens self-awareness. What we do today is based on what we did yesterday. Who we are today is based on who were before. Even the concept of today, yesterday and tomorrow requires that knowledge. What we will be tomorrow requires that we remember what we are today.

When we die, if we remember, we continue into our next stage of evolution. If we do not, we return at the same level, we repeat the lessons we are given until they make an impression on us. Until we remember. It is not the vast body of oral tradition that we remember; this is merely the tool used to develop our ability to recall the lessons gleaned from a lifetime of triumphs and defeats in the pursuit of the underlying reality, which is Truth.

A human who remembers nothing from previous lives is still in the grip of Chaos and is not truly an individual. A human who recalls previous incarnations has risen to a new level of consciousness, has become cohesive. A human who recalls not only previous incarnations but also retains the memory of origin, of those Ancestors who have passed their abilities down through their bloodline, has risen further still. A Bard will mark the transition from each of these stages by composing a statement, which serves as both credential and focus for the power s/he has attained. For example, the following is the Song of Amergin, one of the most famous of the I AM statements:

The Song of Amergin
I am the wind on the sea,
I am the wave of the sea,
I am the bull of seven battles,
I am the eagle on the rock,
I am a flash from the sun,
I am the most beautiful of plants,
I am a strong wild boar,
I am a salmon in the water,
I am a lake in the plain,
I am the word of knowledge,
I am the head of the spear in battle,
I am the god that puts fire in the head.

In Celtic Godhood, Michael Atkinson wrote, "In the Celtic religion, the head is the seat of this divine fire, as well as the seat of the intellect and emotions. But in Celtic idiom these do not reside inside the head, but sit on top (for example; "The thought that was on him"). In this connection, it is interesting that the suffix "hood" (as in Godhood), though in modern English has a different meaning from the noun "hood" (a garment worn on the head), they both share the same Anglo-Saxon root – divine fire is on your head."

This is Awen.
Briwnys /|\

Briwnys;

Very informative, thanks.

The authenticity of the Barddasis questioned by many for the relative modernity of the work and because Morganwg sought to blend Druidic and Abrahamic elements in an attempt to show the common roots of both...

The inclusion of Abrahamic elements is a problem shared with the Lebor Gabála Érenn (The Book of the Taking of Ireland). From wikipedia:

Lebor Gabála Érenn (The Book of the Taking of Ireland) is the Middle Irish title of a loose collection of poems and prose narratives recounting the mythical origins and history of the Irish from the creation of the world down to the Middle Ages. An important record of the folkloric history of Ireland, it was compiled and edited by an anonymous scholar in the 11th century, and might be described as a mélange of mythology, legend, history, folklore and Christian historiography.

I find the claim that the first occupation of Ireland was by relatives of Noah to be ludicrous.

The Celts had a very long oral tradition, with a strict set of laws to insure that no errors crept into it - especially in genealogies. They were required by law to recite these oral traditions yearly at the great fairs before a panel of judges who publicly corrected any errors and banished or shunned those who were found guilty of deliberate manipulation. Many of these traditions were thousands of years old, and while they might not meet the standards for veracity we use today, they were consistent. It was not until monks of the Roman church began to write these down that grave errors were entered into the records and were perpetuated. Others, like Edward Williams who used the bardic name Iolo Morganwg, sought to revive the traditions within the framework of a Christianized society - one of his most notable accomplishments was the introduction of the Gorsedd into the National Eisteddfod of Wales. The difference in intent between the two emphasizes the dissimilarity between Roman and Celtic Christianity. The Romans meant to bend and distort the older tradition to advance their own concepts and purposes while the latter, being originally known as the Culdees, accepted as a Druidic sect, sought to accommodate the differences and blend them together.

Good points. I don't dismiss all of the Lebor Gabála Érenn, but sometimes separating the wheat from the chaff is tiresome. In addition this is a topic that I'm not all that conversant in.

A little history on the differences between Roman and Celtic/Druidic belief:

The Culdee were led, according to tradition, by Joseph of Arimathea, who brought the teaching of Joshua, known to us by the Greek translation of that Hebrew name as Jesus. The Greek word, Iesus, appears to be a rendering based on the Celtic Esus, one of a triumvirate of gods found among the Brythonic/Welsh Celts of mainland Europe. In his original form, Esus was a god associated with sacrifice and war who appears to have been transformed into a savior god through his association with the Joshua.

It was through this association of Esus with Joshua that the Culdees gained acceptance in Brythonic Celtic society as a Druidic sect. It was through the subsequent Celtic influence upon the Gnostic Culdee philosophy that the concept of Trinity was inserted into Christianity. Far from being monotheistic, Christianity supports this concept of "three in one" in opposition to its parent religion, Judaism, which completely denies the incarnation of god into man or the separation of the Divine Essence into three entities or beings.

The Druids who became Culdees didn't leave their old ways behind but incorporated them into their new sect, making no alteration in the symbolism they had used as Druids. The Carmina Gadelica, a collection of Celtic-Christian prayers, shows the strong ties they felt towards nature - In fact, saints in the Culdee church were said to be able to talk to the animals, a skill usually attributed only to Francis of Assisi. There can be no doubt of the druidic influence in the Culdee church, and the Culdee, by supporting the Druidic view, came into direct conflict with the official doctrine of the Roman Empire.

The Roman view, expressed by Augustine of Hippo, taught that man was a sinner by nature, and that, without the grace of God, his sin could only earn him eternal damnation. Man's salvation came solely through the grace of God, as presented in the person and sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and that this grace came only by God's pleasure, to whomsoever he chose to extend it, without requiring any effort on man's part to complete the transaction.

The opposing doctrine of Pelagius, based on the teachings of the Culdees and Druids, taught that man was basically good and did, indeed, have control of his own eternal destiny. It denied the doctrine of original sin, and by extension, the necessity for and the efficacy of Christ's sacrifice on the cross. These opposing and mutually exclusive views divided the Christian church into factions and produced great tensions in society.

For over 300 years, from 313 CE, when the Emperor Constantine issued the Edict of Milan, until the Synod of Whitby in 664 CE, the Culdee teaching opposed Catholicism, not over the placement of Easter, but over the mutually exclusive doctrines of Augustine and Pelagius.

Gnostic Christianity, including the Culdees, followed Essene tradition by requiring evidence of spiritual maturity. The Roman church merely required its followers to accept church doctrine and ritual and simply do as they were told, using fear as a weapon. Gnostics believed that knowledge and the resulting actions of its followers were evidentiary of themselves and disdained the Roman church for not seeking after truth but simply using "the sacraments as formulae offering salvation by magic."

The Roman church modeled its hierarchy on the hierarchy of the empire and was thus easily absorbed into the imperial system. It made no intellectual demands on its followers, requiring only blind obedience to dogma. The Gnostics had no single authority though most, like the monastic Culdees, had communities whose main purpose was the accumulation of knowledge.

The Culdee embraced what is known as the Johannine theology. The writings of St. John focused on the theme of relationship and community rather than on outward acts of righteousness and ecclesiastical authority. Man and Nature were seen as being in a relationship of balance rather than viewed as hierarchies of power. They taught the preexistence of the soul, its subsequent descent into matter and its reincarnation until, by the attainment of knowledge, it was free of rebirth - and this was seen as the salvation offered by Joshua or Esus.

Although the Celtic Christian beliefs were eventually replaced by the Roman Catholic heresies, the Druidic influence on the Culdee, and the Culdee influence on Christianity still permeates all levels of our modern western society. Our values are not, as so often stated, Judeo-Christian, but Celtic-Christian. Our society, with its three branches of government, our common law, our ethics and values, all can be traced back to the Druids.

"If the Celts had won at Whitby, our world might be less materialistic and less steeped in consumerism. Our waters might be less polluted, our rain forests and ozone layer might still be intact, and our fellow creatures might be less endangered. Life might be simpler, less frantic, and happier." - The Plain Truth, the magazine of the Worldwide Church of God.

The Song of Amergin
I am the wind on the sea,
I am the wave of the sea,
I am the bull of seven battles,
I am the eagle on the rock,
I am a flash from the sun,
I am the most beautiful of plants,
I am a strong wild boar,
I am a salmon in the water,
I am a lake in the plain,
I am the word of knowledge,
I am the head of the spear in battle,
I am the god that puts fire in the head.

Truly beautiful and profound. Thank you for sharing this.

Thank You Enoch! It was a suburb article with a lot of valuable information.

iroquis, good to see you my friend, it's been a long time. ''Iroquois Nation proofed all their decisions by weighting the effect to the seventh generation''...The Seven Fires of the Ojibwe is similar.

Yes, we did get things that will lead to the destruction of the planet, if changes are not made.

You are always welcome by the fire iroquis.

Waanakiwin niijii (peace my friend)

Kavika, could you please, at your leisure, share the story, or meaning of "The Seven Fires"?

Each of you have provided wonderful information above that will fill some serious idle research time, thank you.

iroquis. Our's are the ''The Seven Fires Prophecies''. Where you looked out seven generation to see the effects, we wrote of what would happen. The Seven Prophecy is of great importance. ''It is the children who will lead a rebirth of the Anishinaabe way''...As your aware the Ojbwe covered a very large area, from the East Coast of Canada and the US to as far east as N. Dakota and from the Hudson Bay to the plains of central Canada. The movement west was part of the Prophecies. I hope that this helped iroquis.

Waanakiwin niijii

I should add that it predicted the confrontation with the Europeans.

Kavika;

You should write an article about that. Very interesting.

Mn Man, a wonderful idea, I'm always looking for something to do...lol

Waanakiwini niijii

GH♥.. my dear friend, well said. :)

Gail my dear friend, I think that you have taken all that is good and combined into your belief, you live it, thus making all around you better. Thank you for that.

Waanakiwin niijii

My Goodness! Thank you Enoch, Mrs D, and Kavika, for the immense compliment! I am warmed in my heart! I hope always, that my thoughts might help someone else. Coming from an extremely abusive childhood, something in my Spirit told me that wasn't right, that wasn't the way to live. It was actually my Great-Grandmother that told me each of us has our own brain, and because I respected her, I believed. So that is where a large part of one philosophy comes in. Most of the rest from reading, from watching people and their interactions. Some, possibly from Religion, having been raised Catholic, (but totally unwilling to believe what they tried to tell me). Knowing I am Native gave me another philosophy as well. So, as I said above, I am somewhat of a mish-mash, but hopefully cherry picking the most positive of each. The greatest being: to love, appreciate, and forgive negative thoughts.

Bless! :-)

G.H. The Native spirit always will survive and make this place a better place by their existence, you have proved my point.

Waanakiwini niijii

Thank you again, my dear friends! You bring much happiness and insight into my life! Peace always, to you and yours. Bless! :-)

Please note: All three of the excerpts above are from works in the public domain and may be freely quoted.

Briwyns: Thank you for sharing this with us. A fascinating look at things.

You are always welcome to our forums.

Waanakiwin (peace)

Remote Viewer: So good to see you again my friend. Stewardship of Mother Earth is central. It helps explain why Native-Amerians could not understand the European theory of owning the land.

Thank you for visiting RV. You are always welcome to our articles.

Waanakiwin niijii