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ENOCH-2699399

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Lives well by G-d's Laws
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The Value of Charity - By Arch Man and Enoch

Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:25 AM EDT
religion, christianity, giving, charity, judaism, blessing, g-d
By Enoch-2699399
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Charity is a universal activity. You find it in every religion, culture, community, nation and group. At some point every individual does,  receives, or needs to get or do it.

Our good friend Arch Man and I will present some of the ideas about charity from each of our heritages here. This article is not and cannot be exhaustive or definitive about charity. We ask in the comments section that you add to what we start by sharing your personal and group thoughts. Any positive expression of ideas about charity from your life, and your heritage of any kind are most on point and warmly welcomed.

GIVING - THE BLESSING OF CHARITY. BY ARCH MAN 

ATTITUDE OF GIVING: (2 Corinthians 9:7). Each man shall give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for G-d loves a cheerful giver.

Our hearts are to be open and willing to bless others, looking on the needs of others, not just on ourselves. G-d gives to us with a heart of compassion. He cares about all His creation; so it is with this attitude we should in turn be willing to help others.

ACT OF GIVING: (Acts 20:35). It is more blessed to give than to receive. Giving is a choice we make: In our daily lives, as we go through the day we come across many people who have needs: the people that we work with, in our homes, the members of our family. The Greek origin of the word giving is Didomi, used in a very wide application: bestow, bring forth, commit, grant. We need not necessarily open our wallet to give, nor do we need to look far for those to whom we can give.

     A). People we cross paths with, even for just a moment. We have an opportunity to bless them. A gesture as small as a smile or a nod or a kind word can make soemone's day. Allowing others to go first in line can help to lighten their load and lower thier stress level. These simple acts cost us very little and go a long way.

     B). People we work with: At work, do I strive to meet my own goals or do I care about my fellow workers and employer? There are opportunities we have to help co-workers get ahead and do well. Do I teach them what I have learned so that they can improve and find favor with the company? Do I look out for my co-worker? Do I take an interest in their lives? Do we even listen to what they share with us? There are many ways we can bless them and one of the easiest ways is to listen. Just by listening we can find ways to help.

     C). Family and Friends: I can have an impact on my friends and family by giving in many ways: showing my interest in their welfare, caring, helping to lighten their daily load. I can do more than my share of household chores, doing small things to make them feel special and telling them how special they are on a daily basis.

REWARD OF GIVING: There are many blessings of giving: G-d gives us many promises when we obey Him and bless our fellow man. Here are some Scriptures that tell us what to expect from giving.

(2 Corinthians 9:6) Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly, will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously.

(2 Corinthians 9: 8-9) And G-d is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. As it is written: He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor, His righteousness endures forever.

(Luke 6: 38) Give, and it will be given you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured in your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

(Matthew 6: 3-4) But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that it may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

It is a good feeling we get when we help others knowing it makes their lives easier and knowing that we please G-d who blesses us. We ca see by the Scripture that G-d is a rewarder of those that give and bless others. All of our deeds bless us in this life and the next. What you do for and to others you do to yourself. Why not begin to be a blessing to others?

 

THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHARITY - BY ENOCH 2699399 

Charity is a dual blessing. It can be a lifeline to those in need. It is also an important past of spiritual and emotional health, and of the character of the person performing charity. Why?

In Machzorim Rosh Ha Shanah and Yom Kippur (the prayer books for the High Holy Days of the New Year and Day of Atonement) the following is central to both holidays, and the time frame separating them in regard to charity.

It is written that the Holy One, blessed be writes in the Sefer Chayim (Book of Life) on the New Year what fate will be in store for us. That fate is written on Rosh ha Shanah. It is not inscribed and sealed until the end of services on Yom Kippur (Neelah - concluding service with the blowing of the Shofar (Ram's Horn). In between Rosh ha Shanah and Yom Kippur are Yomim ha Norah-eem (Days of Awe). In that time frame, for the sake of our doing three things will the True Judge of our actions re-write in the Book of Life our fate for the coming year. Who will be born, and who will die? Who will be healthy, and who ill? Who will prosper, and who lack? What are the three things we can do to improve our fate forthcoming?

Tefilah, Teshuvah, veh Tzaddakah. If we do Prayer, Repentance and Charity G-d will improve our fate in the year to come. Let's focus in on charity.

We are all familiar with making donations, and fund raising drives. That is part of a healthy caring community. We are supposed to be our brother's keeper (Genesis 4:9). Charity is one way to look our for each other. We are to be there when and as needed. What else constitutes an act of charity?

We can be charitable with ourselves, with those around us, and with our material environment. We are none of us perfect. We can forgive minor transgressions, if they do not endanger us or others. We can forgive errant behavior to us that affects only us. We do need to balance safety, and being played by sociopaths against giving people a second chance. We can do this for others. We first have to deal with our own shortcomings. If we can balance being charitable with our morality and fallibility to focuws on practical improvement we can do so for others too. We can also prioritize what is most in need of repair and improvement in ourselves. We should start that with how what we do affects others. As with so much in life, we learn first how to do right byh others first by mastering how to do good for ourselves.

In the original Biblical Hebrew the word for charity, Tzadakkah comes from the same shoresh (verb root stem - tzadde dallet kuk TDK) as the word Tzedek (justice). Wha is the philological connection between being charitable and just?

In the Torah, it is written Justice Justice shall you pursue (Deuteronomy 16:20). The word, Justice, is repeated for emphasis. We are supposed to seek out justice. Look for opportunities to do justice. As the meanings of the words spring from the same source should we not also seek out the opportunity to do charity? To search for chances to be charitable?

Being just and charitable are very much connected on the interpersonal, communal, and societal levels. If we do not hold people responsible for their actions are we really being charitable to them? Is denying them the chance at improvement an act of charity? How are we doing them a favor to ignore the harm that they intentionally do? If we push the pursuit of justice to the point everyone suffers counterproductive consequences which shut down our ability to function for fear of error will we not live in a police state, bereft of freedom to do right, better? How do we achieve the tricky balance of being just with being charitable?

There is a prayer recited on Rosh ha Shanah, Yom Kippur and fast days by Rabbi Akiva. Itis called Avinu Malkeinu (Our Father, Our King). In it the following appears.

Avinu Malkeinu chaneinu va anaynu, ki ain banu ma'asim, asei im'manu tzadakkah va'chesid, v'ho'shiay'nu.

Our Father, Our King, be gracious with us, and answer us, though we have no worthy deeds: treat us with charity and kindness, and save us.

In this very clear exposition, charity is best understood.

As with all religions, we look to G-d as our ultimate role model for positive action. We seek the grace of G-d to treat us with charity and kindness. This gift will be our salvation.

Among practitioners of Judaism G-d has yet to let us down on all eternally important counts. Can or should we do less and be less charitable and kind to help others in need?

               

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  • Public Discussion (223)
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Enoch-2699399

This article is about the value of charity. Arch Man and I encourage you to post your thoughts, views, experiences, and traditions about charity here. This is not an article which addresses whether you think religion in general, or either one of our religious heritages is a good idea. You are most free to post your own articles if that is of interest to you.

We require that your posts be on point, respectful of others and what they hold dear (even if you disagree with it).

This thread is not about disagreement. It is about working together to better understand how to be charitable and why.

Do show both charity and good judgement in your posts. We look forward to reading them, discussing them, and learning from on another.

The code of honor (COH) has a two to one ration of consonants to vowles. It will be applied in that light.

Your good friends, Arch Man and Enoch.

  • 17 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:33 AM EDT
Carolyn-3170946

Charity comes in many forms: money (of course), volunteering, a kind word, a smile.

I was taught by my parents that financial charity should be anonymous, not requiring recognition of the act or an acknowledgement from the receiver.

Arch Man and Enoch .. this is a very nice article. Great job.

  • 16 votes
Reply#2 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:41 AM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Friend Carolyn: Thank yo so much for your kind words and contribution. We are delighted to see you visit us here.

I concur about anonymous giving. In my tradition, it is better to give without the recipient knowing who gave. That way they neither feel obligated, or dependent on you.

Peace and blessings, Enoch.

  • 14 votes
#2.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:46 AM EDT
Arch-Man

Carolyn- It is my experience that when we give just to meet a need and give G_d the credit; in honoring Him, He in turn honors us. No greater feeling then to have G_d honor us.

  • 12 votes
#2.2 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:05 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Well said!

  • 12 votes
#2.3 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:35 PM EDT
ambivalent

Here is my favorite expert on charity - Maimonides and his eight steps:

judaism.about.com/od/beliefs/a/charity

  • 10 votes
#2.4 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:02 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Ambivalent: Thanks for posting the Eight Levels of Charity by the Rambam, Moses ben-Maimon (Maimonides). It is core to an understanding of the Jewish view on charity in its various forms and levels.

E.

  • 10 votes
#2.5 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:07 PM EDT
ambivalent

My pleasure.

  • 9 votes
#2.6 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:11 PM EDT
Reply
Enoch-2699399

Please substitute the following correct spellings for misspellings in my post above.

on -> one

vowles -> vowels

Your indulgence is appreciated. My fingers are taking a vacation from good keyboarding today.

Enoch.

  • 15 votes
Reply#3 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:43 AM EDT
Ozark Mountain Sage

Hi Enoch-2699399

I know what you mean, I would fire my typist if he wasn't me.

  • 10 votes
#3.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:38 AM EDT
Enoch-2699399

LOL. Good one!

Enoch.

  • 11 votes
#3.2 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:00 PM EDT
Reply
Kavika

Enoch and Al,

All charity is a very good thing, whether it's money, food, smile or a helping hand. One that stands out above all is the gift of friendship. Is it charity, perhaps not in that sense, but to look deeper at it shows that it is the greatest piece of charity that one can give. You have given a part of yourself, and received a part of someone else.

Thank you for the excellent article.

  • 13 votes
Reply#4 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:52 AM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Friend Kavika: You make a great point. Giving of yourself freely, as in friendship is the highestlevel of personal charity.

  • 12 votes
#4.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:32 AM EDT
Arch-Man

Kavika- You're right, very wise. The scripture says that Abraham was a friend of G_d.

  • 10 votes
#4.2 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:15 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

So it does. Great point.

Enoch.

  • 9 votes
#4.3 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:51 PM EDT
fstwarrior

Or, in my words, more simply put - a gift of the heart.

  • 8 votes
#4.4 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:50 PM EDT
samenslow

Enoch:There is, I believe, a Jewish term "misva" (?) that means a good deed done without thought of reward. Am I anywhere near close?

  • 7 votes
#4.5 - Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:59 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Friend Samenslow: Correct. A Matzvah is a Commandment. For us, fulfilling Commandments are good acts. So in common parlance, doing a mitzvah is performing a good act. Charity is an example of this. You hit the nail right on the head. The doing of a Mitzvah is an end in itself. Nothing more, including any reward is necessary. Great work.

Enoch.

  • 7 votes
#4.6 - Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:18 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear fstwarrior: A gift of the heart. I like that. Thanks for posting it.

Enoch.

  • 3 votes
#4.7 - Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:27 PM EDT
Reply
Al-316

I have read that one definition of charity is "love". Helping and giving to others is indeed a display of love.

It can take the form of material objects, time, money, and even a smile or a word of encouragement.

Very nice article gentlemen, well done. Al (not to be confused Arch-Man who is sometimes called Al)

  • 13 votes
#5 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:00 AM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Great point Al. Well said.

Enoch.

  • 8 votes
#5.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:33 AM EDT
Arch-Man

Al-316- :~)

  • 8 votes
#5.2 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:19 PM EDT
Arch-Man

Al-316- By the way, I thought you might like to know that you were my first friend on newsvine.

  • 9 votes
#5.3 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:53 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Al: I could never confuse you two.

You are both very precious in my eyes as good friends, and treasured writing partners.

Enoch.

  • 9 votes
#5.4 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:24 PM EDT
Al-316

Thanks Arch-Man, that makes me feel special. And you have become one of my best friends.

  • 10 votes
#5.5 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:40 PM EDT
Arch-Man

Al-316- Thanks Al, and there I just got a blessing.

  • 9 votes
#5.6 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:45 PM EDT
Al-316

Enoch, my friend, the feeling is mutual. I am sure Arch-Man agrees.

Kavika, on the other hand might benefit from a course in race relations. White guys don't all look alike. At least, I can tell us all apart.

It could have been worst, though. Kavika could have referred to Arch-Man as Mrs D. Then Kavika would have a sex discrimination law suit as well as a racial discrimination law suit on his hands.

Kavika is my good friend so I will call my lawyer first thing in the morning and tell him to drop all charges against Kavika.

  • 9 votes
#5.7 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:03 PM EDT
Al-316

Arch-Man, thank you again. I get so many blessings, it is nice to know that I am also considered a blessing.

I am just curious. Are you going to press charges against Kavika? Maybe this would be a good time to demonstrate some charity. What do you say?

  • 9 votes
#5.8 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:11 PM EDT
Arch-Man

Al-316- Kavika is a proven friend, so will let him slide. lol

  • 9 votes
#5.9 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:11 PM EDT
Kavika

ROTFL, one senior moment and I'm branded for life...

  • 9 votes
#5.10 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:08 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

I say we all head out to Jays Diner for one of those, Forgive and Forget Soda Fountain specials. They wipe out your memory. You cannot recall anything, so you forget. The price is not too bad, so its forgivable.

Enoch, waiting at the parking lot at Jays for the gang.

  • 7 votes
#5.11 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:49 PM EDT
Kavika

Kavika arrives on his trusty steed ''Swayback''...

  • 9 votes
#5.12 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:36 PM EDT
Al-316

Al just pulled up in his flat-bed Ford. And gave Kavika a hug. Kavika wanted a kiss, but Al said no. lol

  • 9 votes
#5.13 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:43 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

ROTF, LMBO.

E.

  • 8 votes
#5.14 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:11 PM EDT
Kavika

LOL Al, you may kiss my __— You are to funny Al.

  • 7 votes
#5.15 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:21 PM EDT
etva

ROTFL! I was actually going to comment on Al's post in 5.0, but now I'm laughing too hard. You guys make me laugh out loud, in moments when I need it most. That in itself is a kind of much needed charity, shared with others.

  • 8 votes
#5.16 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:55 PM EDT
Mrs D-1475814

I almost got tears in my eyes... Until, I realized your discussions were all about male postering. lol

  • 8 votes
#5.17 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:16 PM EDT
Al-316

Mrs D, your tears are welcome here anytime. lol

(((((Mrs D)))))

  • 7 votes
#5.18 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:23 PM EDT
samenslow

Reading these posts I am reminded of a Sufi saying that you can tell if you are on "the same wavelength as God" because you are happy.

  • 4 votes
#5.19 - Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:41 AM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Friend Samenslow: The Sufi's are wise indeed. Thanks for sharing.

Enoch.

  • 4 votes
#5.20 - Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:22 AM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Friends Etva and Mrs. D: Male posturing is preposterous, but still we are predisposed to it.

This just in: Jays Diner will now refer to appetizers as pre-meal snacks, and level a 15% charge for the name change.

  • 4 votes
#5.21 - Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:30 PM EDT
Al-316

Enoch is there any truth to the rumor that Jay has also invoked a pay-up or throw-up policy at the cash register?

  • 4 votes
#5.22 - Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:17 AM EDT
Enoch-2699399

LOL. Dear Friend Al: It seems the truth will set Jay to spray.

E.

  • 3 votes
#5.23 - Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:18 AM EDT
Reply
Jackie-2759125

Hi Enoch and Archman - the word charity has a duality for me. My experiences with charity have been both good and bad. What I've learned over time is you have to be careful how much you give to those in need because if you give too much they aren't encouraged to use their own inner resourcefulness to find solutions to problems they need to solve; problems that no amount of charity can help. "If you give a man a fish; he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime kind of thing." We all have lessons to learn and sometimes too much charity can do more harm than good.

  • 9 votes
Reply#6 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:10 PM EDT
Arch-Man

Jackie- Yes you have a point, but I tend to let G_d be the judge. We do our part and G_d will do His we still get blessed. I'm sure Enoch can add to this.

  • 9 votes
#6.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:26 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Friend Jackie: You do raise a valid concern.

We don't want to deprive people of their independence, or self-sufficiency.

That said, in Pirke Avoth (Sayings of the Fathers) it is written, Ain Lechem, Ain Torah.

Without bread there is no Torah.

In order to function, people must first address the practical side of life. Programs that initially address this, and then assist with self-sufficiency are well worth looking at, and supporting.

There is also programming for those who can not again be independent. Severe medical challenges for example. Those programs are also worthy of support.

A guiding principle for me is to think of doing things for the least of us as doing the will of the Almighty.

Thanks for the good point raised here.

Enoch.

  • 11 votes
#6.2 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:42 PM EDT
huskergal

Since we are talking about charity and food there is a letter that you can write to your congressman to ask congress not to defund vital hunger programs for the people. I hope you don't mine Enoch, but I am going to post a link to the letter.

please join Bread for the World to urge Congress to protect vital anti-hunger programs

.

  • 4 votes
#6.3 - Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:02 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Friend Huskegal: Thank you for posting this important link. We are grateful.

Enoch

  • 5 votes
#6.4 - Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:46 PM EDT
Reply
Holly-348328

Sharing your wealth with those less fortunate is simply the right thing to do. I have been both on the receiving and giving end of charity and I feel that both experiences have left me richer.

  • 11 votes
Reply#7 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:16 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Holly: You know both sides of this equation, so I defer to your experience based wisdom. Many thanks for sharing it.

Enoch.

  • 11 votes
#7.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:44 PM EDT
Reply
Arch-Man

Holly- I agree Holly, after all, all that we have is given to us from G_d in the first place. How grateful we feel when He meets our need.

  • 10 votes
Reply#8 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:33 PM EDT
research100

There are some people who can't accept charity,donations or hand outs that need help. Where do people like that go in their time of need?

  • 7 votes
Reply#9 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:38 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Research100: Can you produce an example? You do post an interesting case. If more is known about why they cannot accept help, more can be known and improvised to meet real and pressing human need.

Thanks for starting this part of the discussion. I look foreword to more information to proceed with it.

Enoch.

  • 9 votes
#9.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:47 PM EDT
etva

I don't know what Research is referring to, but there are many people who don't know how to accept charity, because of pride, how they were raised, or simple fear.

  • 7 votes
#9.2 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:56 PM EDT
virginia-1492786

I think I sort of qualify as one of those whom research100 mentioned. I have always considered myself blessed although I have done without alot of things most people take for granted and since I believe that I am blessed I can't accept even the most basic kindness without feeling horribly guilty.

When I was growing up my mother was a single parent and food stamps was just being viewed as a way to help those in need. I recall well watching my 4 siblings fight over who was going to get the 4 pieces of bread that was all the food we had except for a jar of mustard. I passed on having the bread and mustard so my baby brother could have it. That wqas not the only time I went to bed without food.

After I grew up and got married my one request of my husband was that we always have a place to live and food to eat. I didn't care if I wore rags and went barefoot but me and my children were never going to be hungry or homeless. In the 34 years that I have been married I have counted myself blessed because even though I didn't have a new car and sometimes didn't have any car, I never bought any clothes or shoes for myself new, I did buy used things at thrift stores and yardsales and my children always had the best food I could afford and they got new clothes and shoes on a regular basis. I was blessed because I could feed my children and provide clothing and suitable shelter nd I always had enough food to share with anyone that might have needed a meal or a place to sleep or a friend to share their troubles with.

I am still dirt poor but now my children are grown so I get by on whatever I have because no matter how little I have I know that there are others that are doing without even that. I can't take charity that some other poor soul needs much more than I do. When I do my weekly shopping I always buy a few extras, like when canned veggies are on sell 3/1.00 I buy 6 and donate 3 to the foodbank and I go to the dollar store once a month and buy 3packs of socks to donate to the clothing bank. I pray every day asking for blessings for those in greater need than I for truly I am blessed.

If I went in and applied I am sure I would qualify for help since my income is less then 700.00 a month but how can I do that when I have a place to live, food to eat and clothes to wear? I just couldn't live with myself if I took charity when I know in my heart that others are also in need.

  • 8 votes
#9.3 - Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:06 AM EDT
Arch-Man

virginia- Humbling post, you are truly a woman of grace. Thank you for sharing it with us.

  • 7 votes
#9.4 - Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:15 AM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Virginia: I concur with Arch Man. You truly are a woman of grace and style. Your biography reads like the script of the famous Yiddish play by Sholom Aleichem entitled, Boncha Schveig.

In that seminal work, Schveig is greeted in Paradise by the Prophet Elijah himself. Schveig lead a Job like life. Through it all, he never complained, never questioned, never fought. Instead he took what little he could gather, and gave most of that away to those he considered less fortunate. Due to the virtue of Schveig, Elijah (Eliahu ha Novee) told Schveig he could have anything he wanted for eternity. After all, this is the Oylom haw Baw (World to Come).

Schveig thought, and then asked, If it isn't a burden., and not too much to request, could I please have, once a week a hot roll with fresh butter?

For Schveig, as for you, it is not about what you do not have that constitutes a life well lived. It is more about what you can do in the service of others to serve the Holy One, Blessed be.

Outstanding Virginia, simply and purely outstanding.

Enoch.

  • 8 votes
#9.5 - Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:18 AM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Etva: The clarification I was referring to has to do with shut ins, those who are homeless, have mobility problems, lack money for transportation etc. There may be physical, medical, and financial reasons why they cannot access traditional forms of philanthropy.

For example, where I live, the Salvation Army requires that aid recipients come to the Salvation Army headquarters, bring legal proof of who they are (picture ID, passport, state drivers license, etc.). They are then required to wait in line for hours.

Many people have no such ID. Cannot get downtown the the headquarters, and cannot stand or even sit for hours waiting.

These people are very much in need but cannot come to the source of help. There is a paucity of case workers, and resources to deliver relief in person.

That is the clarity I need.

Some cases may involve people with sever anxiety disorders. They are unable to be in a room with strangers.

The more I know of an individual case, the more help I can be through Vine e-mail on a case by case basis in privacy and confidentiality.

Enoch.

  • 5 votes
#9.6 - Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:37 PM EDT
Reply
AK Luahiwa

Excellent article guys, I can't imagine a world without giving.

AK

  • 10 votes
Reply#10 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:47 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Thanks A.K.

E.

  • 8 votes
#10.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:49 PM EDT
PeaceBlessing

Hi my friend AK.

Excellent article guys, I can't imagine a world without giving.

I must agree with my good friend AK.

Hi Enoch and Arch Man,

Thank you both for contributing in such a worth while way to bring wisdom, knowledge and understanding to that which is at times not easy to do nor understand.

Sometimes charity, depending on the eyes of the beholder, can be made to be negative both of the giver and of the receiver. However, from personal experience, a true act of charity is always positive from either perspective regardless of who is the giver and/or receiver. Coming to this basic understanding has helped me avoid a many an unpleasant situation in my life.

When I was a child being raised by a single parent, our Dad, life seemed difficult at times, we worked hard, it was consistent, but somehow we seemed to always have enough for ourselves and enough to share with others. Giving and accepting from others was just what we did so when it appeared that some would choose to see something negative in these basic actions was new to me as I matured. I would hear comments like, "don't offer this to those people, they will think you think you are better than them" or I would hear comments like "don't give those people anything, let them work and get what they need like everybody else".

We had this neighbor who would many times stop me and my baby brother on our way walking home from the rural bus stop (we lived in the country on a farm) to feed us, not because we didn't have food at home but I believe more so it was her way of giving (showing compassion) because we didn't have a mother at home to cook for us (our Mom died when we were very young). My Dad would sometimes yell as he was working across the large field that separated our houses and say "would you let those children come on home so they can get their work done". Part of my work was to cook dinner for the family; it was always nice to receive a little snack to tide me over until I could get the family meal prepared. Charity, in my experience, is simply done from one's heart even when it is not always recognized as such and being the giver or the receiver does not change this. I grew up around people who gave and received freely because this is just what we did and for this I am very thankful and blessed of God.

I thank you both again for sharing your insightful article as it has allowed me to review that which I have come to understand in my maturity and that is that God has always been with me even when I did not recognize Him as such.

  • 7 votes
#10.2 - Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:25 PM EDT
Arch-Man

PeaceBlessing- Excellent post, and it is always nice to review the past and see how G-d has been faithful to us. He all so makes us like Him (a giver).

  • 6 votes
#10.3 - Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:33 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Peace Blessing: I concur with you and Arch Man. Excellent contribution to this thread. Thanks.

Enoch.

  • 5 votes
#10.4 - Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:16 PM EDT
PeaceBlessing

Hi Arch-Man,

Excellent post, and it is always nice to review the past and see how G-d has been faithful to us. He all so makes us like Him (a giver).

I agree my friend, there is no better example of a "giver" than our Father.

Hi Enoch,

Dear Peace Blessing: I concur with you and Arch Man. Excellent contribution to this thread. Thanks.

You're welcome my friend, and thank you as well.

  • 4 votes
#10.5 - Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:44 PM EDT
Reply
bobby3053155

Hello Enoch, Of course it is OK that you published this article to the group. The articles subject matter pertains to our goals of helping those who are being persecuted in various countries around the world.

There is a song, Stand by Me, which defines to me what charity is. We all need someone to stand by us in times of need. The people of countries like Syria, Tunisia, Iran, Egypt, and many others all need someone to stand by them. The Justice part I'm not sure about, for if someone is unusually cruel to others I'm not sure if being charitable to that person is the course of action that is needed to be taken. Perhaps you mean to pray for people who need to be brought to justice, that they may see their errors and correct them.

Thanks again Enoch, You always get me thinking about things I should be more greatful for. The charity that people have shown me over the years.

  • 9 votes
Reply#11 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:06 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Friend Bobby: Thank you for sharing your wisdom, and for your visit. A person can be charitable without being a patsy. Standing up to a bully can be an act of charity for the bullied.

Enoch.

  • 10 votes
#11.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:52 PM EDT
Reply
RGoodfellow

all the responses are thoughtful, and the article itself is very good, so I am sorry to point out that charity is also a weapon. Case in point, the recent disaster in Japan. Many readers may recall that it took Japan several days before accepting "official" help from the U S Government. That was because the Armed Forces used the offer of "aid" to try to pressure Japan to extend the military presents in their country beyond what was the previously accepted term. Also to encourage Japan to allow military authorities to deal with the many issues involving assaults and worse by servicemen against Japanese civilians. I do not know if the Japanese gave in

  • 6 votes
Reply#12 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:16 PM EDT
Arch-Man

RGoodfellow- Some times in third world conflicts humanitarian aid is used as a weapon. What a crime to let others suffer for political advantage. Besides giving with an alliterative motive is really a bribe.

  • 8 votes
#12.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:26 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Arch Man: I concur. Bribery and charity are spelled differently for a reason.

Dear RGoodfellow: Fr invite sent. Thanks for your lucid and important commentary, and your visit. Please grace us often with your presence.

Enoch.

  • 7 votes
#12.2 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:56 PM EDT
RGoodfellow

I also wonder about "christian" charities like the folks who went to Hatti after the last big hurricane and tired to "convince" families to let them take their newborns, and babies under 24 months,(buy) babies to put up for adoption (at a profit) here in America. They claimed they were a "charitable " organization too. In Africa, many groups dispense "charity" but only if the recipients attend bible study, or "convert" to whatever "flavor" happens to be on hand. "Charity" can and is used for evil too.

  • 5 votes
#12.3 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:21 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

The question is were the folks doing that engaging in, or claiming to do charity?

Charity is done to give, not receive.

Enoch.

  • 7 votes
#12.4 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:35 PM EDT
Arch-Man

I Would add that Christian charities that don't obey G_d's law are ungodly. They are promoting their own agenda and putting G_ds name on it. Enough said.

  • 8 votes
#12.5 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:21 PM EDT
bitemore

#12.5: They are promoting their own agenda and putting G_ds name on it. Enough said.

Amen!

  • 8 votes
#12.6 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:30 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Same for any charity of any kind. If it isn't giving to help, but bribing to use, it isn't really a charity. Good point.

What should we look for in a charity?

1. Does the money expended go where they say it goes?

2. How much of the money goes to professional fund raisers and overhead? How much goes where it is supposed to go?

3. Are there any strings attached? Why?

4. Are their books audited annually to ensure there is no funny business?

5. How effective and efficient are their programs towards achieving their stated goals?

These are legitimate questions which deserve legitimate and independently verified answers.

E.

  • 7 votes
#12.7 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:31 PM EDT
TheJackel

Some use Charity to promote their religion, or as a tool for indoctrination. Often done in Africa and amongst missionaries that claim to be spreading the love of a religion. So the value of charity greatly depends on that actual intentions of the individual. Was or is there an agenda behind it? Was the charity given with no strings attached, and with the pure intent of actually giving on the base purpose of giving? The Charities I give to do not have secondary or primary agenda's behind them. However, we know that charity is pretty much a universal behavior amongst religious or non-religious people ect. To me it's the dishonesty behind some of those charities to which disgusts me. I know of more than a few that dip into the charities they collect, but the way they do it is simply by not recording a certain percentage of the charities given by cash. They of course can't deny credit or check. And this comes to some advice I am going to give on giving. Never give anything you can't track in terms of money to an organization as it has a high probability of being squandered by those in the organization you are giving to.

Other than this, giving to others less fortunate is something you should do as much as you can afford to do. I give my tax return away every year to the American Red Cross, and various environmental preservation organizations.

  • 6 votes
#12.8 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:33 PM EDT
Arch-Man

TheJackel- Thanks for being a giver and not a taker, and they may fool me, but they'll never fool G_d who we all have to give an account.

  • 6 votes
#12.9 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:39 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Jackel: You raise very sound points here.

I respect and salute your selflessness and genorisity. It is exemplary.

We are grateful for your visit, and for your contribution to this article.

Enoch.

  • 6 votes
#12.10 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:45 PM EDT
TheJackel

In the Torah, it is written Justice Justice shall you pursue (Deuteronomy 16:20).

I wouldn't suggest quoting from Deuteronomy since it's a flying contradiction of the morality or charity it pretends to profess. Though I like your intentions with this article, I think it quickly forgets such things as :

13that certain(R) worthless fellows have gone out among you and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, 14then you shall inquire and make search and ask(S) diligently. And behold, if it be true and certain that such an abomination has been done among you, 15you shall surely put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, devoting it to destruction,[c] all who are in it and its cattle, with the edge of the sword. 16You shall gather all its spoil into the midst of its open square and(T) burn the city and all its spoil with fire, as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It shall be a(U) heap forever. It shall not be built again. 17(V) None of the devoted things shall stick to your hand,(W) that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger and show you mercy and have compassion on you and multiply you,(X) as he swore to your fathers, 18if you obey the voice of the LORD your God,(Y) keeping all his commandments that I am commanding you today, and doing what is right in the sight of the LORD your God.

These are things I can not just ignore, so I like to focus on keeping belief systems out of Charity to which really have nothing to do with Charity in the purest of heart. And in Christianity, the context of charity was about giving to your fellow believer and really didn't have much to do with the context of giving in general to anyone or everyone.. :/ But it's good to see that Christians do give to those outside of their faith, and I see many that do so without intention of using their charity as a promotional tool. So I hope we all give because it's the moral thing to do and not because we want to promote our belief systems. I like the concept of pure of heart charity because we want to be good people, and that we actually care about other people. :)

  • 4 votes
#12.11 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:48 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Jackel: Text quoting from translations without knowing the commentaries of a tradition is not the best way to understand a text or its tradition.

That said, you are inspired to do charity. That is good. I am glad you have found a way to do a virtuous activity.

Recall that his article is not about various interpretations of texts or the value of religious traditions. This was covered in my initial document. It is about charity.

We agree that charity is a universal set of emotions and activities. Let's not dwell on what separates us. Let's build on coalitions regarding what unites us.

That will keep us on point, and humanity will benefit from charity in all its forms, for all its reasons.

Again. thanks for your contributions here.

Enoch.

  • 7 votes
#12.12 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:55 PM EDT
TheJackel

As much as I completely don't agree on the "commentaries" (much of which are usually apologetics), I don't feel we need get into that here on this article. I simply addressed concerns in regards to the topic of discussion, so we can leave that debate for another thread at some point :). I think we however agree for the most part on Charity, or the purpose of it, and that is a key thing we can all share and agree on regardless of what divides us in terms of religion ect.

Personally, I think the very act of helping others makes us less of a threat to our fellow man, teaches tolerance, and brings the better of human society to the forefront of our lives. If that is the kind of legacy we leave behind regardless of what we believe, or what we disagree on, the world would be a much better place. :)

  • 6 votes
#12.13 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:53 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

We do agree on the value of charity. It is the point of this article.

We are also in agreement that doing charity makes us more humane, or at the very least brings out the humanity within us.

Thanks for ending on a high note of unity.

Enoch.

  • 6 votes
#12.14 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:02 PM EDT
Reply
Ozark Mountain Sage

The Church has turned over the care of the poor, disabled, and the elderly to the State. I think this is good so as to keep separation of Church and State, because it would be too easy for the Church to become to strong in controlling a large number of voters. (oms)

---------------------------------------------------------

(Matthew 6: 3-4) But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that it may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. (Jesus)

This is good advise. (oms)

---------------------------------------------------------------

"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."

—Talmud, Shabbat 31a

"Recognize that your neighbor feels as you do, and keep in mind your own dislikes."

—Sirach 31:15

---------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 7:12

12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. (Jesus)

---------------------------------------------------

Charity is also how you relate to others. You may be the only person that said a pleasant word to that stranger today.

My chartiy of choice is the Salvation Army. I think they do a lot of good and they have a very low overhead compared to a lot of other charities.

  • 8 votes
Reply#13 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:28 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear OMS: Many thanks for sharing these nuggets of truth with us. They contribute greatly to this thread.

Government is needed to be a check and a balance. It is good we have both not for profit (religious and secular) and public programs. Now more than most of our history, too many are hurting through no fault of their own while too few live the life of Riley.

Enoch.

  • 8 votes
#13.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:59 PM EDT
Ozark Mountain Sage

Hi Enoch-2699399

Thank you for your very kind words.

  • 6 votes
#13.2 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:41 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Most welcome. You are always most welcome in my and our threads OMS.

Smiles. Enoch.

  • 5 votes
#13.3 - Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:19 AM EDT
Reply
screminmimi

Enoch and Arch-Man,

One of the best examples of charity I can think of that I would like to be able to emulate is the one I read in Kavika's article about the Blackfoot a few days ago.... that they measured their status in the number of horses they could give away and the principle value of property was to share it with others.

And, as always, I quote the line from the epic poem I read in the eighth grade so many years ago: "It's not what we give but what we share, for the gift without the giver is bare."

A smile, a thoughtful word, a few extra coins to the person who is short in the grocery line, choosing a name off the "Angel Tree" at Christmas.... whatever, do it with charity in your heart and you will feel G-d's touch in your life.

  • 8 votes
Reply#14 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:21 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Well said Mimi. Thanks for these uplifting words.

Enoch.

  • 8 votes
#14.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:36 PM EDT
Reply
bitemore

A lot of great points have been made here. For me, charity is what defines us as human. It is also at the crux of the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. One needn't be religious in order to be charitable or to understand the meaning of the Golden Rule. All one needs to know is that if you do not enjoy hunger, than why allow a fellow human to feel hunger? If you do not like the feel of pain, then why inflict pain on another?

Methinks there are more than a handful of so-called humans on this planet who could use some lessons in charity.

  • 12 votes
Reply#15 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:48 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Agreed on every point. You do not need to be religious to be charitable. You just need to be sensitive to the plight of others. That is a human trait. So is greed. The question for each of us is which we will let prevail.

Thanks for your post. It helps what we do here.

Enoch.

  • 10 votes
#15.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:00 PM EDT
Arch-Man

bitemore- I agree, I believe that sowing and reaping is a universal law that applies to everyone.

  • 10 votes
#15.2 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:26 PM EDT
Abby.

I'm in total agreement with bitemore.
Well said, B.

  • 6 votes
#15.3 - Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:17 AM EDT
bitemore

Thank you, Abby and Arch Man.

Abby: yours is one of my favorite names! I adore the Abby-character on NCIS - and when I was much younger I enjoyed reading "Dear Abby." If I'd had any kids, I'd have wanted to name one Abby! You do the name proud!

  • 7 votes
#15.4 - Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:44 PM EDT
Reply
boomer 54

Enoch and Arch,

One night at a dinner, I met a man who ran a children's charity and was a foster parent. I was impressed by his talk that night...

I was, at that time, right in the middle of raising my daughter, running my family, and working fulltime. I barely had time to breathe. After dinner, the man andI had a private conversation. I expressed my feelings of inadequacy over wanting to do something to help children, I was just so overwhelmed I couldn't find the time, and I sure had no extra resources. I wanted to know something I could do. He was so kind, he told me to raise my daughter to be a food person and productive citizen and teach her empathy. Take care of my family making sure I gave of myself to them. Take care if my household so we would not be a burden on society. He said sometimes the best charitable thing to do is take care of yourself. He stressed for me to be a good parent and not feel guilty.

His words have resonated with me for over 15 years. Just another take on charity in our often harried world.

  • 10 votes
Reply#16 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:10 PM EDT
boomer 54

Not only a food person, but also a good person...lol...

  • 9 votes
#16.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:16 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Boomer: This man showed great wisdom in his response. You displayed great wisdom in your question, and in taking to heart his sound advice.

Thanks so very much for sharing this.

P.S. You can be a good and a food person too. Julia Child was. Smiles.

E.

  • 9 votes
#16.2 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:34 PM EDT
Reply
Briwnys

Three virtues that are the reflections of Divinity -

    Faith that is the confidence in Truth whose essence is Light
    Hope that is the commitment to Truth whose essence is Life
    Charity that is the expression of Truth whose essence is Love

Light, Life and Love - May the Shining Ones bless you with Their essence.

  • 9 votes
Reply#17 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:26 PM EDT
Arch-Man

Briwnys- That you for your words of wisdom.

  • 7 votes
#17.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:33 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

I join my good friend and treasured co-author Arch Man in complimenting your fine post.

In my parents day, there was a song with the following lyrics.

Faith, hope and charity. That's the way to live successfully. How do I know, the Bible tells me so.

Of course, these ideas, as you helped us by pointing out are indeed universal. You find them everywhere. Every one of us, each culture, each religion, every philosophy, any civilization will sooner or later have to deal with issues which charity addresses.

Again, many thanks for your visit, and sharing the sagacity of your heritage.

Enoch.

  • 7 votes
#17.2 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:39 PM EDT
Briwnys

My dear friend, Enoch,

    In 63 A.D., fifteen years after the Assumption, Joseph of Arimathea and his followers, called Culdees, settled in England where he had been granted twelve hides of land at Glastonbury by Avigarius, the brother of Caratacus Pendragon. According to tradition, the teachings of Joseph of Arimathea were incorporated into the Brythonic Druidic beliefs of Avigarius to form a Druidic sect that became the Celtic Christian church, so it is not surprising that we share some of the same beliefs. The whole concept of the Trinity is part of the "tripartite ideology" which defined Celtic culture and Druidic philosophy (Druidry is not a religion; a Druid was the Insular Celtic equivalent of a Doctor of Philosophy, a PhD. in our modern society). Far from being monotheistic, Christianity supports this concept of "three in one" in opposition to its parent religion, Judaism, which completely denies the incarnation of god into man or the separation of the Divine Essence into three entities or beings.

    The reflection of those Essences were incorporated into Insular Celtic law and ethics. Every person had value according to their position in society and the higher the position the higher the standard of conduct expected of them. The Breitheamh, or Brehons, the Druidic judges in charge of the law, clearly defined those standards for everyone from High King and Arch Druid to slave and foreigner. There were specific laws to protect the rights of women and children.

    Charity, as an expression of Divine Love, was a very important aspect of this culture and the Brehon laws pertaining to it were strict: anyone who came to the door was to be fed and cared for without question in a manner befitting their value to society and the status of their host.

Briwnys /|\

  • 7 votes
#17.3 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:57 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Thanks for sharing your tradition. We are happy for your elucidation of Celtic and Druid philosophies and concepts. That helps us better know your take on these matters.

You may in future wish not to take up the task of defining what others believe and do, based on comparisons to what you do. This is a constructive suggestion. You know you are always most welcome here.

One of the traditional problems with the comparisons of religions and philosophies is that those who compare theirs to others rarely portray the others accurately.

We have seen some of that here. It isn't relevant to the topic. The topic is charity.

We do encourage positive statements of what people think, feel, believe and practice on charity. Expositions on what others do is theirs to define and state.

All best regards. Enoch.

  • 7 votes
#17.4 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:12 PM EDT
Briwnys

If I have overstepped any bounds, please accept my apology. If I have made a misstatement, please enlighten me so I will not make the same mistake again as I was not consciously trying to define others beliefs and would welcome any suggestions you might be gracious enough to give me. If you feel that what I have posted isn't relevant to the topic, please delete the post.

Blessings,

Briwnys/|\

  • 8 votes
#17.5 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:29 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Friend Briwnys: There is no need to delete your post. It is informative. It is what we want here. There is great value to it. Thanks.

It is best when providing us with what we need to better understand what you are doing to state it positively on its own. What you believe stands on its own merit. There is no need to discuss what other people accept or reject.

The class of things any one group doesn't accept is almost infinite. What they do is much smaller, and easier to comprehend.

Many Christians would not accept, for example, that because they believe in a Trinity concept that makes them polytheists. I leave it to Arch Man and others in the Christian community to address this.

Judaism does not expend any time on denying or affirming the incarnation of G-d in the beliefs of others. That is simply irrelevant to what we are doing. If it is important to others, we do not deny or denigrate any thing they choose to believe.

We Jewish People are monotheistic, as exemplified in the Shema.

My point is, if you had not added characterizations of Christianity and Judaism to your post, you would have been on safer ground. You would also have been able to share with us your important ideas on charity, which is the point of the article without this distraction.

I don't want to lose your friendship, sagacity or wisdom. It isn't my intention to offend you in any way shape or form.

Your good friend, Enoch.

  • 8 votes
#17.6 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:43 PM EDT
Neron Kesar

Briwnys,

You write, "In 63 A.D., fifteen years after the Assumption, Joseph of Arimathea and his followers, called Culdees, settled in England where he had been granted twelve hides of land at Glastonbury by Avigarius, the brother of Caratacus Pendragon." I will have to add this to the following list.

There is an unusual recurrence of the number "63" in historical events related to the fate of Jerusalem.

Julius Caesar acquired the Pagan religious title "Pontifex Maximus" in 63 B.C.E.

Roman general Pompey captured Jerusalem in 63 B.C.E. and inaugurated the Roman period of Jewish history.

Augustus, the first emperor of Rome, was born in 63 B.C.E.

Nero's only child and daughter was born and died in 63. Nero honored his daughter with the title of Augusta and declared her a goddess following her death.

Rome and Parthia were at war and this continued until 63, when Nero opted for peace. "This peace deal of 63 was a considerable victory for Nero politically. Nero became very popular in the eastern provinces of Rome and with the Parthians as well."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero

According to the Nero Redivivus legend, Nero is supposed to return from the dead and retake "Rome" with the assistance of the Parthians.

Those familiar with my writings know I claim that the Good Antichrist was born in 1963. See "The Good Antichrist Born October 14, 1963" for further remarks:

http://amberneve.newsvine.com/_news/2007/12/22/1181647-the-good-antichrist-born-october-14-1963

Israel declared independence on May 14, 1948. The age of the nation is currently 63 and will remain so well into the fateful year 2012.

"63" is likely a prophetic marker.

There are just as many "coincidences" related to the date October 14.

  • 4 votes
#17.7 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:00 PM EDT
Briwnys

Dear Enoch,
I wasn't offended, only fearful that I had misrepresented something by ignorance or assumption, and meant no offense myself. I have the unfortunate tendency to sometimes slip into 'lecture' mode without realizing it. My intention was to show the commonality of our roots. The last thing I wish is to be divisive in a group that has so warmly welcomed me.

Again, forgive me.

In friendship,

Briwnys /|\

  • 10 votes
#17.8 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:16 PM EDT
Briwnys

Neron, this is the traditional story of the origin of the Culdee, though there is no clear evidence it is factual. Interesting coincidence, though.

Sorry for the digression.

  • 9 votes
#17.9 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:23 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Neron and Briwnys: Thanks for your contributions. You are both always and warmly welcomed in my and our threads.

Peace and blessings. Enoch

  • 6 votes
#17.10 - Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:21 AM EDT
Neron Kesar

Enoch, are you in need of help with your finances or otherwise?

  • 5 votes
#17.11 - Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:52 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Neron: No, but thank you for asking.

Enoch.

  • 5 votes
#17.12 - Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:11 PM EDT
Reply
Grisham

Great article and great points, Enoch and Arch. It's also nice to see you writing again, Arch. I have missed your articles.

I have to admit that charity isn't something I think about very often. It's something that comes (the feeling) when I'm least expecting it. Sometimes it turns out well, and sometimes not.

For example, I saw a homeless person outside a grocery mall once and gave him some money. I remember him smiling and thanking me and as I made my way across the parking lot towards the grocery store, I saw him almost running towards the liquor store that shared the same mall space.

Needless to say, I didn't feel very good for giving him the money.

When I used to work at home I drove for Meals on Wheels and that always gave me a good feeling. I felt badly that sometimes I would be the only person that person had seen all week.

I try to give where I can, but I don't like being taken advantage of. I guess that's the moral of my post. But I think if everyone thought a little more charitably and less selfishly, the world would be a better place.

  • 8 votes
Reply#18 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:39 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Grisham: Good points all. Thanks for the visit, and your illuminating commentary.

E.

  • 7 votes
#18.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:57 PM EDT
js-445607

Great article Enoch and Arch-Man. When I see a homeless person spending their money on cigarettes or booze I simply think there has to be some comfort in this even though others might not see the same. When a human has nothing are they not entitled to some comforts even if they are not ones we might choose?

As a child my siblings took whatever they pleased from me. I was very young when I discovered toys and food were minor compared to open air, a smile from a family member or a stranger. I began tutoring at age 8 as some of the students in my classroom were disabled children with learning disabilities and seemingly were ignored. Children often do not see their charitable offerings as anything save being kind when no one else seems inclined.

What my giving has done for me is when it is my turn to need my needs are answered. Due to the fundamental and abusive mother I had G-d was very frightening and mean. I decided if there truly was G-d and he was suppose to be the "Father" then due to my father's kindness I felt G-d would be just fine if I went my own way and didn't put too much pressure on Him for guidance. I find all life is precious and the more it is honored the more delightful it becomes.

  • 8 votes
#18.2 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:47 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Thanks for sharing your personal experiences here.

It is always tragic when people are mean spirited to one another. All the more so for children from family.

I am glad you had the vision, moral courage, and perspective to turn all those wrongs into rights.

Enoch.

  • 8 votes
#18.3 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:53 PM EDT
js-445607

I feel blessed Enoch that this is how my mind works. My consciousness spirit and soul are very good companions. Thanks.

  • 7 votes
#18.4 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:59 PM EDT
Al-316

Grisham, my friend, you said:

For example, I saw a homeless person outside a grocery mall once and gave him some money. I remember him smiling and thanking me and as I made my way across the parking lot towards the grocery store, I saw him almost running towards the liquor store that shared the same mall space.

I think you did the right thing. Your gift to him was intended to help him. Once your gift is received your involvement is over. He may have been going to the liquor store to pay an outstanding bill.

For many years I would go to work in the city at 1, 2, 3 o'clock in the morning, whenever I was no longer tired and wanted to avoid commuter traffic and telephone calls so I could get some work done before my clients woke up. I would park on the street and walk to my office. Occasionally I would be approached by an individual walking around who would ask for money.

I would always engage them in conversation before I gave them anything. I would ask them questions like: are you a Christian and do you go to church. They always answered yes to my questions. I never asked them what the money was for but I would give them what I had. It was never more then twenty dollars because I never carried more then that. Most of the time it was less then twenty dollars. I would always end the conversation with the words "God bless you" so that would connect the gift with God, not me.

One woman who I had helped tracked me down and came to my office in her tattered rags with tears in her eyes and explained that she could not pay me back the money but that she had made a gift for me. It was a poem of gratitude she had written and framed just for me. It was not pretty to look at, but it was beautiful to receive.

You reap what you sow.

  • 10 votes
#18.5 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:30 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Al: Thanks for gracing us with that stirring story.

There is a custom in my heritage that is analogous to your vignette.

By three years of age, we teach our children are able to recite Scripture in its original languages, and to sing prayers hymns and psalms. As soon as they are old enough, we begin teaching them.

We mark the occasion by smearing honey on their lips and tongue, and letting them consume the honey while reciting a prayer in Hebrew or Aramaic. That way for life the word of G-d will always be ever sweet to their mouth.

E.

  • 9 votes
#18.6 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:52 PM EDT
Grisham

I think you did the right thing. Your gift to him was intended to help him. Once your gift is received your involvement is over. He may have been going to the liquor store to pay an outstanding bill.

Thanks Al. I have to admit I never looked at it from that perspective. However, the next time I gave a needy person money, I didn't give it to them directly. I instead asked him what he needed the money for. The man said he hadn't eaten anything for three days. I took him to Subway and bought him a meal.

When I see a homeless person spending their money on cigarettes or booze I simply think there has to be some comfort in this even though others might not see the same. When a human has nothing are they not entitled to some comforts even if they are not ones we might choose?

That's a different way of looking at it to. I think the sort of comfort you get from a bottle are temporary at best and probably lead to oblivion or worse in the end. It doesn't make me feel better to think I contrinuted to that. But that's just me.

  • 8 votes
#18.7 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:11 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Grish: I concur about buying a meal rather than giving cash. It is your money until you part with it. Don't part with it until you are sure you know how it will be spent. This is as true for giving to individuals as it it to donating to organizations.

E.

  • 8 votes
#18.8 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:15 PM EDT
js-445607

Let me be clearer on my statement above concerning homeless expenditures. I have purchased a meal or purchased an item for a homeless person rather than hand over cash. My point was that some need charity beyond what we can provide and their loneliness and the feeling of being disengaged makes me think this is why they run for the booze or cigarettes. People often look down upon the homeless person's preferences but I feel I want to be more charitable in my thinking along these lines.

In Portland my sister, daughter and I collected items to donate to shelters and the homeless. I got to know many of these people around our neighborhood. What I felt was very sweet is for every gift we gave to them they would offer one in return. Their offerings were usually manual labor and this was quite impressive I felt. A lawn chair, a pile of books, a blanket meant a lot to someone with very little to call their own.

  • 7 votes
#18.9 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:49 PM EDT
Grisham

My point was that some need charity beyond what we can provide and their loneliness and the feeling of being disengaged makes me think this is why they run for the booze or cigarettes. People often look down upon the homeless person's preferences but I feel I want to be more charitable in my thinking along these lines.

Totally agree, js. There aren't very many homeless people where I live. I went to Toronto once and there was a man laying in a doorway with a dog curled in his lap. What I noticed most is how people walked by without even glancing at him. It was like he didn't exist.

  • 8 votes
#18.10 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:13 PM EDT
Arch-Man

Al-316- Nice story.

  • 6 votes
#18.11 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:23 PM EDT
js-445607

Portland had a pretty impressive crop of homeless and there were many shelters and "soup" lines around. I taught my children to show respect when they encountered one sleeping in a doorway telling them this was their bedroom and we should protect their privacy. I often refrained from taking the children to one park as it was crowded with the homeless. I didn't take them due to paranoia but out of respect for them needing space. We had plenty of space and there were other parks within walking distance that weren't situated so closely to the shelters and food lines. I didn't let the children play outside alone due to the many pan handlers streaming through the neighborhood stopping and asking us for a handout. This was in the late 80's after spending two years on the island where we saw one homeless man. I greet them all and hope they know many care about them even though I'm sure they feel the opposite most often.

  • 6 votes
#18.12 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:26 PM EDT
Al-316

Arch-Man, that felt like a blessing. Thanks.

  • 7 votes
#18.13 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:33 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Grisham, J.S., Al and Arch Man: The plight of the homeless is indeed a tragic one. It is a bad problem getting worse. Charity is part, but cannot be all of the answer here.

May G-d protect those most in need of it. E.

  • 7 votes
#18.14 - Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:24 AM EDT
Reply
Arch-Man

Grisham-

It's also nice to see you writing again, Arch. I have missed your articles.

Yes you are right, I haven't seeded or written anything in a while; so that explains why I haven't heard from you. :)

When I used to work at home I drove for Meals on Wheels and that always gave me a good feeling. I felt badly that sometimes I would be the only person that person had seen all week.

What a blessing just to pay attention to some one, good.

My wife once bought a homeless person a soda and cupcake to give to them; just to have them refuse it, because they don't eat junk food.

  • 7 votes
Reply#19 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:52 PM EDT
etva

Many thanks to Enoch and Arch-Man for this beautiful article. I think charity is a state of being; one that recognizes the connections we all share. I see it as a positive energy more than just a thing, blindly offered, given with love, and expecting nothing in return.

  • 6 votes
Reply#20 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:13 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Friend Etva: What a beautiful way to express this noble activity.

Thanks for sharing it.

Enoch.

  • 8 votes
#20.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:20 PM EDT
Arch-Man

etva- That reminds me of 1 Corinthians 13 about love (charity). Love is a verb.

1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. 4 Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; 5 it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

  • 9 votes
#20.2 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:21 PM EDT
etva

A good example of charity being interchangeable with love! Thanks Arch-Man.

  • 7 votes
#20.3 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:28 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

This quotation is one of the great passages in all bodies of literature. It is completely on point in this discussion.

Thanks for sharing it.

E.

  • 8 votes
#20.4 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:32 PM EDT
Reply
tzia62

I believe that charity begins at home. It is up to parents to teach their children about helping anad caring about other people. It could be playing with a child that nobody else will play with, or donating time at a Nursing Home, anything that is beneficial to someone. Childen need to learn that this is just a way of life.

  • 9 votes
Reply#21 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:22 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Point well taken. Good idea here. Charity does begin at home, including education.

Thanks for the visit, and the acumen.

Enoch.

  • 9 votes
#21.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:28 PM EDT
Reply
walt-567637

Arch-man and Enoch my dear friends. Your words of wisdom are greatly received. Thank you so much. If I may I would like to add a small thought. There are two equally important parts of the act of Charity they are of the giver and the receiver. Which one might be required to partake either as a giver or a receiver. Both can be a humbling experience. Charity is the act considered the highest act of Agape "love" which is given always unconditionally, with out any exportation's of any thing in return. Not even a expiation of thank you. If any exportation's are expected by the giver it no longer is unconditional. The receiver must set pride aside so the gift of charity can be given freely and unconditional. This is giving from the Heart, thank you for your seed it is truly important for all.

  • 8 votes
Reply#22 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:29 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Friend Walt: As ever, you grace us with your wise observations. We are always the better off for your contributions.

Gratefully, Enoch.

  • 8 votes
#22.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:34 PM EDT
Arch-Man

walt-567637- Agape is a good example of G_d's love and the gift of grace.

  • 9 votes
#22.2 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:41 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

As is Chesid. Same difference.

E.

  • 6 votes
#22.3 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:44 PM EDT
Reply
Artie-3438207

The poor are like a gift to us. Although I am not a religious person, I believe that we benefit from them, because it is through giving that we truly receive.

We give most, when we give of ourselves. Not just in material things, necessarily, but in giving up ego when it divides us.

To give freely, and happily, that is the point-if so, it shouldn't matter if that money goes for a pint of booze, or a pint of milk. Who am I to judge? Would I rather trade places?

Easy to say all of this, but v hard to practice :)

  • 8 votes
Reply#23 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:40 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear Artie: You may be more religious than you realize. Religion, at its best is precisely about the values which you espouse and upon which you write.

Thanks for the visit, and for sharing your thoughts.

Enoch.

  • 7 votes
#23.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:46 PM EDT
Reply
SuperSaiyan

This is a thoughtful article that speaks to how we are our brother's keeper and that Charity is one way to assist our fellow man.

  • 9 votes
Reply#24 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:01 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Dear SS: Thanks for the insightful observation.

We are all indeed very much keepers of all the family of humanity. Our very survival, long term, depends on it.

Best regards. Enoch.

  • 6 votes
#24.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:16 PM EDT
Reply
Remote Viewer

Thank you for this thought provoking article, Arch Man and Enoch! I agree that true charity is synonymous with justice. Unfortunately, much of what passes for charity seems to consist of crumbs thrown by the wealthy and powerful in a self-congratulatory manner to those who are less fortunate. Here is an interesting article about charity and justice.

In the chapter "On Giving" in The Prophet, Kahlil Gibran writes:

There are those who give little of the much which they have - and they give it for recognition and their hidden desire makes their gifts unwholesome.

And there are those who have little and give it all.

These are the believers in life and the bounty of life, and their coffer is never empty.

...

You often say, "I would give, but only to the deserving."

The trees in your orchard say not so, nor the flocks in your pasture.

They give that they may live, for to withhold is to perish.

Surely he who is worthy to receive his days and his nights, is worthy of all else from you.

And he who has deserved to drink from the ocean of life deserves to fill his cup from your little stream.

  • 7 votes
Reply#25 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:45 PM EDT
Enoch-2699399

Great and very telling quotation. Many thanks for bringing It to us.

Its always a pleasure to have you visit, and enlighten us.

With graititude, Enoch.

  • 6 votes
#25.1 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:50 PM EDT
Arch-Man

Remote Viewer-

There are those who give little of the much which they have - and they give it for recognition and their hidden desire makes their gifts unwholesome.

And there are those who have little and give it all.

These are the believers in life and the bounty of life, and their coffer is never empty.

Nice, I agree. There is a scripture verse in my faith that says: "A liberal man will be enriched, and one who waters will himself be watered." (Proverbs 11:25) RSV

  • 7 votes
#25.2 - Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:47 PM EDT
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